[wdodge45]

Hello Tech Guys,
I have two of your 60-1 turbos with 1.30 AR ex. housing on my C5R 427 sandcar....I really would like to see if there are any upgrades to make more HP with these turbos.

They are the ceramic ball bearing and oil cooled turbos. They came with .96 ex. housings but the car was flat above 5k and was overboosting. Now the car pulls hard all the way to the 7200 rev. limiter.

Can these turbo go with a bigger compressor housing and bigger compressor wheel for more volume and increased HP. What if any, choices do I have with these turbos.

Thanks for your help.

Serial # T-14229 with a 70 stamped on the inside compressor housings with 1.30 AR housing...


Bill

[Robert]

Originally Posted by wdodge45

Hello Tech Guys,
I have two of your 60-1 turbos with 1.30 AR ex. housing on my C5R 427 sandcar....I really would like to see if there are any upgrades to make more HP with these turbos.

They are the ceramic ball bearing and oil cooled turbos. They came with .96 ex. housings but the car was flat above 5k and was overboosting. Now the car pulls hard all the way to the 7200 rev. limiter.

Can these turbo go with a bigger compressor housing and bigger compressor wheel for more volume and increased HP. What if any, choices do I have with these turbos.

Thanks for your help.

Serial # T-14229 with a 70 stamped on the inside compressor housings with 1.30 AR housing...


Bill

There aren't too many options for the 60-1 compressor wheels beyond what you have. You could rebuild the u it's and use a 62-1 compressor wheel instead. You could probaby squeeze a few more horses out of that way. There's also the GT-K61 compressor wheel now which is an updated design on the 60-1 type wheel. What is your ultimate power goal with the turbos? And what do you make now? Just trying to get a sense of your goals so I can try to help give you a sugggestion on which way to go

[wdodge45]

Hey Robert,
Thanks for the quick response... At 16psi of boost we are 1250-1300hp give or take on the traction. I would like to be around 1500hp without running crazy boost. The motor is totally setup to handle this level of horsepower. My limiting factor is we don't have the 6 bolts per cyclinder so this is why I don't want to get into the higher boost numbers. I feeI I can increase the volume of airflow without higher boost numbers. I fell we can run 20psi max. safely but don't want to go much further. So with that being said any thoughts would help and even if that means new turbos, I just want to weight my options before dropping some coin and want to make sure what your thoughts are.
Thanks so much for the help...

Bill

[Robert]

Originally Posted by wdodge45

Hey Robert,
Thanks for the quick response... At 16psi of boost we are 1250-1300hp give or take on the traction. I would like to be around 1500hp without running crazy boost. The motor is totally setup to handle this level of horsepower. My limiting factor is we don't have the 6 bolts per cyclinder so this is why I don't want to get into the higher boost numbers. I feeI I can increase the volume of airflow without higher boost numbers. I fell we can run 20psi max. safely but don't want to go much further. So with that being said any thoughts would help and even if that means new turbos, I just want to weight my options before dropping some coin and want to make sure what your thoughts are.
Thanks so much for the help...

Bill

Thanks for that additional info that helps a lot. Well, bottom line you have options. The 62-1 compressor wheel will give you a solid 10% more air than the 60-1 you currently have. That's per turbo of course so with 62-1 compressors being the only different part you should be able to hit 1500 HP at the same or very similar boost level and the turbine side wouldn't change so your boost curve should remain the same. That's the cheapest option available. The other option would be to run a pair of GT-K units. It sounds like you have T3 turbines now. If that is correct then you could run a pair of GT-K 550s with a similar size turbine housing. The GT-K 550 has the newer GTK61 compressor wheel which will outflow even the 62-1 at the same boost pressure you have. The downside if that is the most expensive option. The upside is the newer compressor wheel and ported compressor shroud will give you more power across the power band then the twin 62-1s. I hardly ever say what I'm about to say but in your case I have to make an exception. If I was you I would rebuild the units with a 62-1 compressor wheel as the only change. A couple of reasons for this. First it sounds like you have a set up you are very comfortable with. You know what it's going to do and when its going to do it. In a sand car I KNOW that's important. Especially if you are charging up a big hill and expect the engine to do a specific thing at a specific RPM in your climb. Given that you seem fairly happy with your set up and know how it will react the 62-1 compressor upgrades makes the most sense. It's flow profile and boost response is almost identical to the 60-1 you have now just with more CFM per turbo at the same pressure ratio. That get's you to the 1500 HP goal you want without having to up the boost or alter your cars boost repsonse at all. The flip side is if you go with new turbos you have a chance to completely change things around. You could play with all the new options Turbonetics has available and pick the one you want based on what your long term goals are. If 1500 HP is going to be it for a while stick with the 62-1 compressor wheel upgrade. If you have a feeling you'll want 2000 HP in a couple months then we should talk new turbo. If I was you, 62-1 upgrade is the way I would go.

[wdodge45]

Hi Robert,
I think you nailed this one perfectly....Thats the info I was looking for....please explain how do I get pricing for this upgrade and what I need to send back as far as the whole turbo or the turbo minus the exhaust housing ect.

You gave me way more info than what I thought I was going to get, so thanks a million to you and your company for helping out there customers.

Thank you again...

Bill

[Robert]

Originally Posted by wdodge45

Hi Robert,
I think you nailed this one perfectly....Thats the info I was looking for....please explain how do I get pricing for this upgrade and what I need to send back as far as the whole turbo or the turbo minus the exhaust housing ect.

You gave me way more info than what I thought I was going to get, so thanks a million to you and your company for helping out there customers.

Thank you again...

Bill

I'm glad I could help out. I'm shooting you a PM with some more info.

[wdodge45]

Hi Robert,
I just got everything apart and will sending the units tomorrow. One last question pertaining to the 60-1 compressor housing and wheel upgrade to a 62-1. Why can't a bigger compressor housing and wheel be fitted onto a 60-1 like a T64 or 66 size? Sorry for being dumb but just know what fits what. Is this upgrade a F1 style wheel?
If I was to buy new turbos what would be your suggestion and why...I"m trying to think ahead if i"m not happy with this set-up when all is said and done.

Thanks,
Bill

[Robert]

Originally Posted by wdodge45

Hi Robert,
I just got everything apart and will sending the units tomorrow. One last question pertaining to the 60-1 compressor housing and wheel upgrade to a 62-1. Why can't a bigger compressor housing and wheel be fitted onto a 60-1 like a T64 or 66 size? Sorry for being dumb but just know what fits what. Is this upgrade a F1 style wheel?
If I was to buy new turbos what would be your suggestion and why...I"m trying to think ahead if i"m not happy with this set-up when all is said and done.

Thanks,
Bill

The F1 wheels are turbine wheel designs only not compressor side wheels. You could certainly upgrade to a HP64 or HP66 compressor wheel if that is your preference. The main reason I recommended the 62-1 was cost/known performance. The larger compressor wheels in the HP line will change the spool characteristics you are used to. Even if you kept the same turbine wheels the HP compressor (64, 66, etc) wheels have a completely different flow profile than the 60 series do. I was of course operating under the presumption of keeping your cars boost curve, response, and general power distribution identical to what it is now just with more power being produced. Because the 60-1 and 62-1 share the same base architecture both wheels have identical flow profiles and boost curves just with one (the 62-1) producing more power per unit of pressure ratio than the other (60-1). You can actually see this on the compressor maps for the 60-1 and 62-1 here:

60-1:


62-1:


When you look at those maps you can see that the compressor efficiency islands have the same basic shape and curve to them. The 62-1 map is wider because it is larger and makes more power. Now compare that to the T66 compressor map here:



If you look at the maps side by side you can see the T66 will make more power but look closely at the efficiency island for the T66. It's a drastically different shape and curve. That same difference will be reflected in on throttle performance. Now that's not to say the T66 is a bad choice for your car. In fact the T66 is a pretty popular compressor for LS motors. More so its the delta between the 60 series flow map and the T66 that I'm alluding to. If you were to go with T66 wheels you would have more power potential than you would with the 62-1 but at the same time it will change the shape of the boost curve on your car and therefore your car will FEEL different when its climbing up to the boost threshold.

That's the tech side. The cost side is a bit simpler. Upgrading to the T66 will flat out cost more. Because the 62-1 is in the same family as the 60-1 the parts required to make the upgrade are less. A T66 upgrade would entail changing the bearing housing as well to accomodate the different wheel design and would end up costing you more. In all honesty if you wanted to go with a T66 I would recommend totally new turbos while you were at. The T66 compressor flows a lot more than the 60 series and I would have also recommended a turbine wheel upgrade as well. Main reason is that the T66 can flow so much more than the 62-1 that with the additional head room I would recommend a turbine wheel change to make sure you have enough power handling potential on the turbine side for when you ultimately start using that additional head room.

So long story short the 62-1 upgrade is cheaper and will keep things the same with regards to feel on the pedal but the larger compressors will cost yet make much more power albeit with a different overall feel.

In regards to a totally new turbo I would again want to know what your ultimate power goals are. Not just the 1500 HP target you have right now but thinking long term what is the most you would ever want to run in that car. I want to make sure whatever I recommend as a new turbo would be able to meet your goals now and later when the horsepower bug starts bitting you again.

[wdodge45]

Ok..............then......with that being said would you stay with the 62-1 upgrade? my cost for this upgrade with everything is around $856. and change. Would you stay with the 62-1 or does the cost off set one to the other....I just don't want to spend money on top of money....
In terms of horsepower, 85% of the time I will be running in low boost and there are times I want a kick in the ass and jump on high boost. 1500 hp is pretty much max. on my transaxle and I would love to brag and tell all that I have 1800hp but we all know bench racing and bragging rights are just that...I think between transaxle and tire limitations,this is going to keep us from putting much more power to the ground, so I would have to say with all honesty, if I can achieve a true 1500hp I would be more than happy.
Your final thoughts please, thanks for your patience.

Bill

[Robert]

Originally Posted by wdodge45

Ok..............then......with that being said would you stay with the 62-1 upgrade? my cost for this upgrade with everything is around $856. and change. Would you stay with the 62-1 or does the cost off set one to the other....I just don't want to spend money on top of money....
In terms of horsepower, 85% of the time I will be running in low boost and there are times I want a kick in the ass and jump on high boost. 1500 hp is pretty much max. on my transaxle and I would love to brag and tell all that I have 1800hp but we all know bench racing and bragging rights are just that...I think between transaxle and tire limitations,this is going to keep us from putting much more power to the ground, so I would have to say with all honesty, if I can achieve a true 1500hp I would be more than happy.
Your final thoughts please, thanks for your patience.

Bill

I would stay with the 62-1s. The 60 series really shines below 24 PSI where as the larger compressors want a lot of pressure ratio to really make serious power. If 1500 HP is the limit of the entire system the 62-1s are a perfect match. They will give you an honest 200 HP more (combined) then what you have now, keep the feeling you have now, and are very flexible and efficient at the pressure ratios you are running. $856 is cheaper than one new non-ball bearing turbo (or very close to the same) so price wise $856 is actually not bad. Going to the larger compressors would give you the "my turbo is bigger than yours" bragging rights but if your transaxle is limited to 1500 HP you could never use the additional head room anyways.